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Lost records prove nothing except that the records were lost. Nobody doubts that he was a bishop.
In all likelihood, it was Gian Pietro Carafa (later Pope Paul IV), Bishop of Chieti. Scipione was a protege of Carafa and was appointed Auxiliary Bishop of Chieti while Carafa was in charge. Quite frankly, it would be strange if it was anyone else.
They remained close even after Carafa was elected pope because in 1555, he made Scipione a cardinal.
You all helped me raise $20k for @KeithNester1’s family, and I said that I’d shave my head if you did it before the end of June.
Well, here we are.
Thank you all. Glory to Jesus Christ!
Anyone with a brain in his head stopped being Catholic after the invention of the PRINTING PRESS, let alone the internet.
Imagine being able to read and having access to the whole Bible & still being Catholic.
The Catholics used to have to withhold the Bible from their people.
I’m not about to defend everything that happened in this visit, but the difference here is that Mullally came more or less for a casual chat and no real ask. Kinda like your crazy cousin popping in for a visit. It’s overall fun, she says some things you don’t like but it’s not worth fighting over right now, she leaves and you move on with life.
The SSPX was not looking for a casual chat nor were they estranged cousins of the Church. The expectations are different. You are always more strict on your own children than you are the children of strangers.
The Anglicans have been in open rebellion for over 400 years. The expectations for them are low. The SSPX claim to be loyal sons. The expectations for them are much higher.
However, if the SSPX wants to be treated like strangers in the Vatican, relegated to casual and friendly visits, then they’re on the right track.
That's a fair point about wanting to talk directly to Pope Leo. I hadn't considered that before.
Quick note: this conversation would be much better over a cigar. That way we can actually start punching each other.
Still, that doesn't absolve the SSPX from their blunders. If we were to look at this as merely a political affair (a foolish thought experiment on the best of days by the brightest of minds of which, I have neither), the SSPX greatly overplayed their hand. There never was equal footing in this affair nor was that ever going to be the case. The proof of that is in the result. I can concede (without necessarily believing) that Pope Leo had all the bad intentions and none of the negotiating skills and still come to the conclusion that what the SSPX did was objectively wrong though understandable.
I think you and I would agree in that if the SSPX were brought back into full communion with the Church, the points of contention in Vatican II were clarified, then that would be a great victory in heaven and on earth. Hopefully, we get to see that within our lifetimes.
But, back to the main point, this line of criticism of "he has time for those clearly outside the Church, but not the SSPX" does not hold water in my view. Those visits are more or less just to keep the door open. I don't think anyone believes that we're on the verge of some major breakthrough to reunion with the Anglicans seeing as how far they've drifted over the last 10-20 years. If the SSPX got the Mullally treatment, I think that would have been just as fruitless. It would have kept the door open but absolutely no progress would have been made.
@JrLesage I’m just trying to wrap my head around how you could read that first paragraph and walk away with “just anybody can meet with the pope”
At least do what @MoonshinerMonk did and engage with what I’m actually saying, good grief
Yeah, I’m not buying this argumentation either. Rome did offer to meet. The SSPX refused the terms. The SSPX is expected to submit to Rome, not the other way around.
So I’m not buying this revisionist history.
Expecting the SSPX to at least temporarily suspend the consecrations is not unreasonable. It’s like asking a gunman to put the gun down before talks can begin. +Galaretta and +Fellay are 69 and 68 years old respectively. They’re not in any immediate danger of death. There is no urgency here. Suspend it a year. Heck, suspend it until 2028 and do them on a nice round number of the 40th anniversary of the original consecrations. But the strategy of “we’re leaving unless our demands are met. You have 5 months to comply” has NEVER flown in Church history when employed by a fringe group so I’m not sure why they expected it to work this time.
I’m not saying Rome couldn’t have handled the situation better, that’s literally never the case. But I am saying that the SSPX is not the innocent victim.
Oh dear, @Michael_J_Matt! Your staff photoshopped my painting of St
Edmund Campion and used it without permission in the latest print issue of The Remnant.
In the future, I am happy to grant permission, but please include the title and artist.
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